The Tyros has been out over a year now and we've seen two incremental updates for it, ie., OS 1.10 and the latest OS 1.20. Do you think Yamaha is bending over backwards trying to R&D new features, bug fixes or extra features in their Flagship Arranger for us Tyros owners? Do you really??

Is it because the Tyros was not the red hot seller Yamaha thought it would be so they can't afford to do R&D on the Tyros' OS or offer other enhancements? Let me say emphatically that Yamaha does have the cash reserve to do R&D for software updates but there has been nary a peep from them since OS 1.20 came out 'several' months ago.

Which leads me to ask the question: Which Keyboard company has the best customer support when it comes to offering OS and other kinds of updates and enhancements (hardware, etc.) to its customers?

To give you an example: I own a Garmin GPS Satellite Navigation device that has an updateable OS in it. I've owned it for about 2 years now and it cost me around $350. Guess how many OS updates (bug fixes, extra add ons and features) there's been since it first came out? There has been a total of "16" OS updates! Talk about being keen on supporting a product!! That's what I call putting your customers first and foremost. Garmin realizes that their success stems directly from the owners and buyers of their products so they seem to do everything in their power to protect that loyal following and satisfy their customers by supporting them through diligent product support.

I'm really questioning myself as to whether I will ever buy another Yamaha Keyboard again. Sure, the Tyros OS is updateable but except for two minor updates and many things still unresolved - one of which is the repeat to Fill function with a common foot controller + there's other bugs and quirks too. Sigh....

So how does Roland, Korg, GEM, and Ketron stack up? Does any one stand out as a company that truly cares for its customers by supporting them with diligent product support?

We've all seen what happened to the 9000PRO owners just recently. Yamaha just swept them under the rug as if in their mind they now don't exist. No more OS or any other updates for them sad to say.

One thing I can say about Garmin is that I would buy another one of their products in the blink of an eye because of the outstanding customer support they offer besides the fact that they make some of the best GPS, Chartplotters and Fishfinders around IMO.

Can I say the same thing regarding Yamaha and its products?? I think you know my answer to that one. Although the Tyros is a very good sounding Keyboard and has many nice features, sound is not everything. There's other things that matter too - like customer support and following up on a product by supporting it even though it may have been discontinued.

Car manufacturers supply parts and even recalls for their vehicles for "10" years regardless to whether its a discontinued model. Should we hold Keyboard manufacturers to any less of a standard??

Any thoughts or opinions? And if anybody could answer my question about which Keyboard manufacturer offers the best product support it would be greatly appreciated. First hand knowledge of your experiences is always the best indicator.

Thanks again.

Best regards,
Mike

NO ! I brought to the attention (back in June 2003) to Steve Deming at Yamaha USA, the Tyros keyboard's flagrantly missing foot pedal triggered 'repeating self fill' feature which is included on 'all' other Yamaha arranger models (9000pro, PSR2000, PSR2100) except the Tyros. He advised me that he forwarded my complaint to Yamaha Japan, but I have yet to hear a further response or see a Tyros OS Update. I'm 100% convinced that this missing feature on the Tyros alone was not intentional, but clearly an OS programming oversite by Yamaha, and could (and SHOULD) be corrected easily by Yamaha via a simple OS Update. For Yamaha to deny a problem and not address this issue is imo simply wrong.

Scott

As is well documented, Yamaha never addressed the bugs in the vocal harmonizer on the PSR2000, even though Steve was kind enough to find a work-around for it.
Even though all the other models worked correctly, Yamaha insisted that the 2000 was supposed to be as it was.
Oh, by the way, they did fix it in the 2100, which should never have been produced--it should have been done by a software update to the 2000 OS. Oh, that's right, they couldn't update the software because the OS was on a chip, contrary to what Yamaha advertised.
DonM

One of my fav topics! Regarding Yamaha, the Tyros has gotten WAY more support than the former "flagship" arranger, the 9000 Pro, ever did. Even when we did get OS upgrades, they were sometimes buggy. At least the Tyros came with voice editing software that we were promised for the 9000 Pro but was never delivered. But that's nothing compared to the lack of support and functionality I am experiencing currently with Yamaha/Zero-G's Vocaloids program, which really doesn't work as it should at all and upgrades just to provide normal VST functionality are not yet available.

Well this to me too is a very irritating subject.

While I have to say that I have received the best support from Yamaha without even a close runner up from any of my other gear, that does not necessarily mean that I am totally happy with their support.

Scott did bring up the fill to self months ago and while I did offer a differing point of view, I was in agreement with him 100%. To me it is unacceptable that it has not been addressed by this time.

It's ludicrious what Korg did (or didn't do with the PA series) and now with the PAX. They put out an incomplete board and the buyers are waiting to get the fully functional board that was advertised.

The PSR2000 fiasco is a "you're kidding right, no company would be that misleading and stupid."

The Motif is most likely on it's way out of my studio for the Fantom X when it hits the stores.

In a nutshell to me, I'm mad as hell and am not going to take it anymore. Cool features and sounds may sell the first board, but customer support will sell all the subsequent boards. At the prices that the boards have reached now, I expect a whole lot more in the way of upgradable things on some sort of reasonably regular basis.

I have always maintained though we need to buy a board for what it is, not what it could be if they upgraded it. Though cool things now and again with upgrades is a, "yeah they support and give cool new little things all the time after the sale." Of course the exclusion being bug fixes like the fill to self on the Tyros. At these prices I do not want nor will I accept jury rigged workarounds, I expect it to be fixed correctly period.

I think the growing sentiment that I have seen alot of here and agree with is that I am no longer going to jump on the next new board that comes out for very few features added and some dropped with a fairly high price tags attached.

Any company that's listening here.....it's much easier and far less expensive to keep a current customer than it is to try to get them back, once they have gone somewhere else.

If we start going to the controller/pc setups......adios arrangers and workstations. It would be like me trying to go over to Macs now after being so entrenched in Windows.....it isn't going to happen.

Take thine heads from thy buttocks.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-16-2004).]

AMEN, BROTHER!!!! Ditto what Terry just said.

Tom

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Bigger is not always better

The lack of new OS's could mean they consider they got it right first time...well nearly. Possibly as per most companies Yamaha are concentrating on designing their next Super Model to sell to you.
There is stated to be a new CVP later this year....meaning a new top end keyboard model usually follows and should be with us 2005. All this is really disheartening to the poor customer. Korg at least do hang on to their models longer, i3 & i30 were manufactured a number of years and the PA's have now been with us a few years.

I have decided to keep and enjoy my 9000pro, sit back and just let them get on with-it.

Graham UK.

Good going Graham. Ditto for me withn the PA80. I generally agree with everything that has been said here.

I think I'm "stuck" with the Motif ES and it's absolutely awful OS because I really like having the breathe controller along with the VL synthesis board in a unit that I can take out of the studio and play readily. The sampling function is so unintuitive that it's pretty much useles to me. The sequencer function is somewhat better, but geting inside some ofn the sub menus is a nightmare. However, the board sounds great, and it has a the breathe controller option, so it looks like it's staying here.

Since I'm going to be setting up a laptop for my softsynths anyway, had Yamaha and Sondius offered windows xp support for the SYxg-100 soft synth ( which includes their VL synthesis ), this wouldn't really be an issue, but like some of their other previous products, they orphaned it.

Korg has a real knack for putting out incomplete arrangers, and while the PA1x is probably a great machine, at it's price, it surely won't be replacing my PA80. I would have thought that the speaker version would have been a good bit less expensive than the "pro", given some of the feature disparity between the two, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Roland has no arrangers that interest me, ( though the V synth and Fantom X certainly do interest me ). Ketron and Gem have none that I don't have to drive many hours to see. So.. I'm probably outta the hardware race for quite some time, if not for goodd, or at least until my PA80 breaks down.

Unless..... I can find a way to implement a wind controller with a Fantom X, or a softsynth, but without physical modeling synthesis for the wind instruments, it would be pointless anyway. Tassman has a physical modeling software, but it pales in comparison to the VL150 plug in. The only other solution would be to find an inexpensive unit to house my VL150 plug in or find a used VL hardware module. I'm not sure what is available to that end, but I guess it's worth a look.

The PA80 is still more than sufficient for a "road" act. I don't absolutely need a PA1x or Tyros, and I'm not buying another mushy key PSR. I rarely use an arranger in the studio any more, and I don't need to spend hundreds / thousands on any hardware to improve a soundset, only to see my latest and greatest become old and obsolete in a year or two ( or less ).

If they want to keep me interested, make a Motif, a PA1 whatever, a Tyros, whatever... that can be upgraded to the next model ( not OS..next model ) via rom ( at a fair price of course ), so I don't have to go through the hassle of buying a board and selling it a year later when it becomes obsolete. When someone does that, then I'm interested again.

AJ

AJ

I was impressed that Ketron issued a complete new OS for the SD1, in fact making it an SD1 plus. I understand they have drug their feet a little on a promised X1 upgrade though.
At least they will listen and try to address customers' needs and wants. Scott Yee requested the rootless chord recognition upgrade and they did it, even though Scott never bought one.
DonM

Prince AJ at Ketron knows his stuff and really cares about their products.
He's a good friend and is always ready to help as is Dan O'Neil....if only there were more Ketron dealers around the USA..

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www.donnypesce.com